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ForumsCompounding & FormulationNeedle gauge and dead space — need advice

Needle gauge and dead space — need advice

sarah_TO Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 2:36 AM 14 replies 2,007 viewsPage 1 of 3
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sarah_TO
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Jun 26, 2024 at 2:36 AM#1

Writing this once so I can stop repeating it across threads. It is about the dosing arithmetic, and it is deliberately narrow — everything I am not confident about is marked as such.

What is actually established

Concentration choice is a precision decision, not a preference. Reconstitute high and every dose is a tiny volume where one unit of syringe error is a large fraction of the dose. Reconstitute low and you get more graduations per dose, so the same hand tremor costs proportionally less. Against that, more diluent means more benzyl alcohol and a shorter comfortable in-use window.

The condition it depends on

It is worth saying that rounding to the nearest whole unit is usually acceptable at maintenance doses and is not acceptable at the bottom of a ladder, where one unit can be a fifth of the intended dose.

The practical version

The three numbers to write on the vial: total mg, total ml, and mg per ml. Everything else is division. And the sanity check is that dose volume times number of doses should be less than the volume you put in, because dead space takes the difference.

What I am not sure about

So the question, as narrowly as I can put it: how much material I am losing to dead space, and whether that explains why a 10mg vial gives me nine usable draws rather than ten. Not looking for reassurance. Looking for the part I have got wrong.

— sarah_TO · corrections welcome and will be edited into this post with credit
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JessicaH_TX
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Jun 26, 2024 at 2:48 AM#2
sarah_TO said:
Concentration choice is a precision decision, not a preference.

No disagreement with sarah_TO. One condition attached. Dead space is the answer to the missing dose. A fixed-needle insulin syringe holds a few microlitres in the hub and needle after the plunger bottoms out, and on small draws that is a measurable percentage of every dose. Across ten draws it adds up to most of an eleventh, which is exactly the "nine draws from a ten-dose vial" complaint. Luer-lock syringes are worse; low-dead-space fixed-needle designs are better.

Last edited: Jun 26, 2024 at 6:48 AM
49 2sarah_TO, wendy_avl, jason_paloalto and 46 others
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Dr.KarenChen
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Jun 26, 2024 at 3:00 AM#3
sarah_TO said:
Concentration choice is a precision decision, not a preference.

I am going to disagree with reconstituting low as a general rule. More diluent, more punctures, more in-use days at room temperature, and the stability trade-off is real. Precision is not the only variable being optimised.

50 3TomFromTexas, mike.trainer_LA, sarah_nash92 and 47 others
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KevinCompounds
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Jun 26, 2024 at 3:12 AM#4

Answering the narrow version, because the broad one does not have a single answer. Do it in two steps and it stops being confusing. First concentration: 10mg into 2ml is 5mg/ml. Then volume: a 0.5mg dose is 0.5 ÷ 5 = 0.1ml. Then units, and this is where people go wrong — a U-100 syringe is graduated in hundredths of a millilitre, so 0.1ml is 10 units. The word "units" has nothing to do with milligrams; it is a volume marking that exists because insulin happens to come at 100 units per ml.

Ask again with the specifics and you will get a better answer than this one.

Last edited: Jun 26, 2024 at 5:12 AM
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stefan_berlin
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Jun 26, 2024 at 4:14 AM#5
JessicaH_TX said:
Dead space is the answer to the missing dose.

Same experience, arrived at from the opposite direction. Nothing to add that would improve it.

Last edited: Jun 26, 2024 at 7:14 AM
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