Taking the question as asked, rather than the general version of it. The dose-response is real but shallow at the top. Across STEP 1 and STEP 4 the gap between 1.7mg and 2.4mg is a couple of percentage points of body weight on average, and the average is carrying a wide spread — plenty of people at 1.7mg sit above the 2.4mg mean. If a dose is working and tolerable, "working" is the relevant variable, not "maximal".
Prescribed on cardiovascular grounds rather than for weight, and almost everything written for patients assumes the opposite.
Relative versus absolute is the distinction that gets lost: a 20% relative reduction on a high baseline risk is a large absolute benefit, and the same relative figure on a low baseline risk is a small one.
What I actually want to know is how much of the SELECT benefit is plausibly independent of the weight loss, and whether that distinction changes anything practical.
I would rather have one careful answer than five confident ones.
amsterdam_pete said:The dose-response is real but shallow at the top.
Agreed, though "tolerable" needs defining. A dose you tolerate by eating almost nothing is not tolerated, it is being paid for somewhere else — usually in lean mass, sometimes in adherence three months later.
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Browse GL Biochemnewstart_MO said:Prescribed on cardiovascular grounds rather than for weight, and almost everything written for patients assumes the opposite.
That holds for the injectable. The oral formulation has different absorption behaviour and the dose numbers are not interchangeable, which is worth saying out loud because people quote them as if they were.
From the other side of the consultation, briefly.
newstart_MO said:...we're creating a generation dependent on cardiovascular risk...
I understand the concern, but consider this analogy: are we "creating a generation dependent on" blood pressure medication? Cholesterol medication? Thyroid medication?
Obesity is a chronic disease with biological drivers. Treating it with medication is no different from treating any other chronic condition. The "dependency" framing implies weakness or moral failure — neither of which is accurate.
If ongoing medication is what keeps someone healthy, that's successful treatment, not dependency.