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ForumsPublic SquareWeekly check-in thread — need advice Page 2

Weekly check-in thread — need advice

greg_boulder Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 2:30 AM 52 replies 2,715 viewsPage 2 of 11
HPLC_Greg
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Apr 5, 2024 at 5:03 AM#6
LabKate said:
The gap between trial results and real-world results is consistent and it is not fraud.

I read this differently from LabKate, on substance rather than tone. I would add the less popular caveat: these trial populations under-represented several groups, older adults and the highest BMI categories among them. The results probably generalise, and "probably" should be stated as an assumption rather than dropped.

Last edited: Apr 5, 2024 at 11:03 AM
16 19SallyK_inj, CryptoCarl, MariaRD and 13 others
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labquiet_amy
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Apr 5, 2024 at 6:03 AM#7
greg_boulder said:
I keep finding that the number in the press summary and the number in the paper are not the same number, and the difference is always in the same…
greg_boulder said:
...regarding the trial evidence...

I think this is an underappreciated point. To expand on it with some data:

A recent meta-analysis of 15 RCTs (n=12,300) found that the trial evidence was associated with a clinically meaningful effect size across diverse patient populations[1].

The NNT was 12, which is comparable to statins for secondary prevention. That's a strong clinical argument for this approach.

Last edited: Apr 5, 2024 at 8:03 AM
17 20HPLC_Greg, LibrarianMeg, bri_stats and 14 others
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pat_auckland
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Apr 5, 2024 at 7:03 AM#8
HPLC_Greg said:
I would add the less popular caveat: these trial populations under-represented several groups, older adults and the highest BMI categories among them.

Bayesian meta-analysis perspective on the trial evidence: traditional frequentist meta-analyses report point estimates and confidence intervals. Bayesian approaches provide probability distributions that are more intuitive for clinical decision-making.

For example: "There is a 98.5% probability that semaglutide 2.4mg produces >10% weight loss vs placebo" is more actionable than "RR 3.4, 95% CI 2.8-4.1, p<0.001."

The the trial evidence evidence is strong under both frameworks, but Bayesian analysis better communicates the degree of certainty for individual patient counseling.

Last edited: Apr 5, 2024 at 11:03 AM
18 21LarryQC_SD, wanda_boise, NurseAsh_DET and 15 others
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SkepticalSean
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Apr 5, 2024 at 8:03 AM#9

A narrower follow-up, since the general answer is now clear:

How would you tell the difference between that and the alternative explanation?

19 22tammy_FL, Dr.LipidDallas, alex_tucson and 16 others
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greg_boulder
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Apr 5, 2024 at 12:50 PM#10

Closing the loop on my own question.

Update — my curve sits below the published mean and the explanation is that the trial arm had support I do not have. That was reassuring rather than otherwise.

Last edited: Apr 5, 2024 at 2:50 PM
23 23ben_calgary, patPC_UT, Dr.DermMIA and 20 others
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