Posting this because the summary going around does not say what the paper says, and the difference matters for how people here are using it.
FLOW is the relevant trial and it reported a meaningful reduction in kidney-disease progression and related death in people with type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease. The mechanism looks to be a mixture of reduced albuminuria, better glycaemia and blood pressure, and a probable direct anti-inflammatory effect on the glomerulus. Separately, eGFR is genuinely noisy during rapid weight loss — a small early dip is common and usually haemodynamic rather than damage.
Where I think it is weakest: the comparator does most of the work in how this gets reported, and it is not the comparator most people think they are citing.
The question I want answered is how to read eGFR during rapid weight loss, given that creatinine depends on muscle mass and muscle mass is changing. I would rather have one careful answer than five confident ones.
Dr.RenalNash said:FLOW is the relevant trial and it reported a meaningful reduction in kidney-disease progression and related death in people with type 2 diabetes and…
That holds for the injectable. The oral formulation has different absorption behaviour and the dose numbers are not interchangeable, which is worth saying out loud because people quote them as if they were.
Dr.RenalNash said:FLOW is the relevant trial and it reported a meaningful reduction in kidney-disease progression and related death in people with type 2 diabetes and…
I will push back on the "any working dose is fine" framing. The maintenance evidence sits overwhelmingly at the top studied dose, and the extension data shows regain tracking dose reduction rather than tracking stopping. Holding low is reasonable; pretending it is evidentially equivalent is not.
I would rather be corrected than agreed with, if it comes to it.
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Shop Reference StandardsShort answer first, then the reasoning. Albumin binding above 99% is the whole reason weekly dosing works, and it is also why the trough matters more than the peak. People who dose late are not losing a peak, they are letting the trough fall, and the appetite effect tracks the trough.
sarah.morrison said:The oral formulation has different absorption behaviour and the dose numbers are not interchangeable, which is worth saying out loud because people…
Agreed, though "tolerable" needs defining. A dose you tolerate by eating almost nothing is not tolerated, it is being paid for somewhere else — usually in lean mass, sometimes in adherence three months later.