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Evidence-based GLP-1 & peptide discussion since 2023
ForumsCardiovascular OutcomesNNT for MACE prevention — what worked for you?

NNT for MACE prevention — what worked for you?

Dr.LipidDallas Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:42 AM 16 replies 2,206 viewsPage 1 of 4
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Dr.LipidDallas
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Jan 24, 2024 at 1:42 AM#1

Prescribed on cardiovascular grounds rather than for weight, and almost everything written for patients assumes the opposite.

The bit I cannot resolve on my own is how much of the SELECT benefit is plausibly independent of the weight loss, and whether that distinction changes anything practical.

I have searched first, so if this is covered somewhere point me at it and I will read it.

13 8pam_stl, wei_SG, cory_ATX and 10 others
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LabKate
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Jan 24, 2024 at 1:51 AM#2
Dr.LipidDallas said:
Prescribed on cardiovascular grounds rather than for weight, and almost everything written for patients assumes the opposite.

Dizziness and cardiovascular risk: I was lightheaded for the first 2 weeks. Root cause was a combination of reduced caloric intake and mild dehydration.

Fix: minimum 80-100oz water daily, don't skip meals even if you're not hungry (eat small protein-rich snacks), and stand up slowly from sitting/lying positions. Also check your blood pressure — GLP-1-induced weight loss can make BP meds too strong, requiring dose reduction.

Last edited: Jan 24, 2024 at 4:51 AM
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NurseLeah_Nash
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Jan 24, 2024 at 2:00 AM#3
LabKate said:
Dizziness and cardiovascular risk: I was lightheaded for the first 2 weeks.

SUSTAIN-6 was the first CVOT to show cardiovascular benefit with semaglutide, relevant to cardiovascular risk. In 3,297 T2DM patients with high CV risk: MACE HR 0.74 (95% CI 0.58-0.95, p=0.02)[1].

Notable: the retinopathy signal in SUSTAIN-6 (HR 1.76) was subsequently attributed to rapid A1C reduction in patients with pre-existing retinopathy — not a direct drug effect. This has been confirmed in longer-term follow-up studies.

References:
[1] Marso SP, et al. N Engl J Med. 2016;375(19):1834-1844.
11 6PeptideSynthNJ, Dr.KarenChen, Dr.NateNeph and 8 others
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hyun_seoul
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Jan 24, 2024 at 2:09 AM#4
Dr.LipidDallas said:
Prescribed on cardiovascular grounds rather than for weight, and almost everything written for patients assumes the opposite.

Adding a me-too, because a thread of one person's experience is not much use. The detail I would add is minor and it is already implied above.

Last edited: Jan 24, 2024 at 6:09 AM
10 5BariatricNurseD, MASHdoc_SA, GenomicsKate and 7 others
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PharmHunterJen
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Jan 24, 2024 at 2:55 AM#5

Adding the clinical framing, because it changes how the question reads.

Dr.LipidDallas said:
...we're creating a generation dependent on cardiovascular risk...

I understand the concern, but consider this analogy: are we "creating a generation dependent on" blood pressure medication? Cholesterol medication? Thyroid medication?

Obesity is a chronic disease with biological drivers. Treating it with medication is no different from treating any other chronic condition. The "dependency" framing implies weakness or moral failure — neither of which is accurate.

If ongoing medication is what keeps someone healthy, that's successful treatment, not dependency.

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